Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

34

Question for Billy The Ex-Bethelite and others who had forgone college sometime ago.

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i was talking with my wife today about college and i asked her about why the society makes such a big deal about witnesses not going to college.

in typical dub fashion, my wife tells me that they do not discourage college, but they do not encourage it either.

instead, they encourage placing kingdom interests first.. now i told her about you (billy) and how you were at bethel and are now starting college at the age of 40 (i think that is correct).

Olin Moyles Ghost

It amazes me that JWs argue with a straight face that the WTS doesn't discourage higher education. While there was a period in the 1990s where the literature adopted a more liberal tone regarding college, since the early 2000s the pendulum has swung back in the anti-college direction.

While the literature is full of Watchtower weasel words, the message is crystal clear to anyone who has been a Witness: "strong" JWs don't go to university, especially right after high school. Over the last several years, here are a few examples of the anti-college statements I have heard at assemblies and conventions. Note that I'm not even including the comments made by individual JWs in the congregation, which are often more pointed. Rather, these are all from assemblies and conventions, which are carefully scripted by the WTS.

A Bethel Speaker (non-GB) gave the example of a mentally ill person who shot himself in the head in an attempt at suicide. The bullet did not kill him, but rather destroyed the part of his brain that caused his mental illness. Thus, this individual was cured by a bullet to the head. Of course, this is a rare occurrence--usually a bullet to the head kills you. The speaker likened this to college: some JWs come through it unscathed, but it wrecks the "spirituality" of most. (this is the same illustration given by GB member Losch in the famous youtube video; perhaps this speaker got this illustration from Losch...or maybe they got it from the same source)
A District Overseer likened college to shark-infested waters. You can swim through them, and you may make it to the other side alive. But is it worth the risk?
A demonstration depicted a Witness high-school student speaking with her guidance counselor. The counselor urged the student to complete some college applications. The JW student explained that she wanted to become a full-time minister instead and used the old canard that a college education is no guarantee of a steady job.

These are just three examples of the clear, pointed direction from the WTS. If you were at these assemblies and heard these parts, do you think you would have left with the impression that college is ok?

144

The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan in

my mom is addicted to the wts.

i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Hello Reniaa,

Thanks for responding. But you did not tell provide the WTS position on who these "many false prophets" are? If you're saying that to be a false prophet you must perform "great signs and miracles," then who are the many that are false prophesying and performing great signs and miracles? (personally, I read Matt. 24:11, 24 to not require all false prophets to perform signs and miracles, but that's a matter of interpretation; unlike the WTS, I'm willing to admit that my reading isn't necessarily the only proper one).

Feel free to respond to my thread on the subject: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/196460/1/According-to-the-WTS-who-are-fulfilling-Jesus-prediction-that-there-will-be-many-false-prophets-in-the-last-days

144

The False Prophet Nathan?

by brotherdan in

my mom is addicted to the wts.

i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.

he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Note how the WTS followers concoct an incredibly narrow definition of "prophet" in an effort to absolve the WTS of any accountability for its indiscreet incorrect predictions.

This WTS definition excuses hucksters like Hal Lindsey (Late Great Planet Earth) and Ed Whisenant (88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988) from being false prophets because those guys tie their predictions to Daniel, Revelation, etc. Heck, even David Koresh based his predictions on the Bible. But none of these clowns are false prophets in Watchtower-land!

But this creates a problem. Jesus predicted that there would be "many false prophets" during The Last Days. If these really are The Last Days, then who are the "many false prophets" that Jesus predicted would be around? I posted a thread on this, but can't seem to get the WTS/JW take on the matter: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/196460/1/According-to-the-WTS-who-are-fulfilling-Jesus-prediction-that-there-will-be-many-false-prophets-in-the-last-days

Is the WTS saying that Jesus was wrong?

20

According to the WTS, who are fulfilling Jesus' prediction that there will be many false prophets in the last days?

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

the bible predicts that there will be many false prophets in the last days.

here are some examples:.

matthew 24:11: "many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Shameless bump.

36

"Where else would we go?" - A common JW cliche'.

by Crisis of Conscience in

how many times have you heard that before, whether in or out?

in the past, i truly believed that.

if i were to leave the "truth", where else would i go?.

Olin Moyles Ghost

This is a common (and effective) thought-stopping technique. It kept me limping along in the JW/WT faith for a few too many years.

One reason it works so well is that the WTS does a great job at poisoning the well regarding other religions. That's actually one of the things I liked best about being a JW--the ability to obliterate any other religion! (Trinity = BS; hell = BS; book of Mormon = absurd; etc.). So I viewed it as basically a choice between JW-ism and atheism. I wasn't ready to give up on the existence of the God of the Bible, so I stuck with JW-ism even though I was starting to see its theological and structural flaws.

The problem with my reasoning as described above is that I was making a false choice--namely between JW-ism and other organized religions. I didn't consider the fact that perhaps there simply isn't a "true religion" at all. The WTS doesn't teach that there was an organization you had to join to be saved during the "wheat and weeds" period from the 2nd Century through CT Russell's time in the late 1800s (of course, this creates tension with the "faithful and discreet slave" doctrine, but that's for another thread).

So, what makes today any different? Who are we to say that 2010 isn't just like 1210 or 1610 or 1710, and there's simply no "true organization"?

Really then, the "where else can we go" argument hinges on today being The Last Days because otherwise it's still the time of the "wheat and the weeds." Ever since the New Testament was written, people have thought they were living in The Last Days and would not die. And they all had one thing in common: they were wrong and they died. Why are we so arrogant to think we're any different?

(as a side note, I have issues with the Bible and Christianity in general, but wrote the above from a Biblical/Christian perspective)

28

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 07-18-10 WT Study (REACH OUT)

by blondie in

jw
friends

comments.

you sow with a view to the spirit.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Thanks for the summary. As many of us know, the organization is bleeding elders and MS. In my old congregation, there were more former elders/MS than current. Most of these guys still believed (as far as I could tell), but were not interested in the politics, etc., associated with the position. Also, many in the under-40 crowd also appear to have little interest in serving. I don't blame them. It's a thankless job and a waste of time.

For years, the Society has piled heavy loads on elders and servants. Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

20

According to the WTS, who are fulfilling Jesus' prediction that there will be many false prophets in the last days?

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

the bible predicts that there will be many false prophets in the last days.

here are some examples:.

matthew 24:11: "many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

Olin Moyles Ghost

I'm genuinely curious. Who are these many false prophets that Jesus said would be roaming around during The Last Days? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

269

Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

after reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .

i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.

so please feel free to post your experiences.

Olin Moyles Ghost

I know JWs who sound a lot like Mary's sister. I was probably similar for a while, too. A lot of these folks are in their comfort zone as Witnesses. They grew up in the faith, all their friends are JWs, often the work for/with other JWs, etc. So there's a lot to lose and not a lot to gain by leaving the religion. For many, being a JW is truly the easy way out.

154

Last Night's Intervention

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

i'm afraid of starting a new post because i've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... but i still love you guys.. last night i went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how i'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking".

my wife said, "i am unable to fight you with the bible because you know more than me about it.

but k** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.. so my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Threads like this are fantastic because they show in stark relief the absurdity and tortured logic required to advocate for the WTS position. In Watchtower-land, prophets don't actually prophesy. Brilliant!

Facts don't matter, logic doesn't matter, even the plain meaning of words (such as "prophet" and "prophesy") don't matter. All that matters is to defend the Watchtower Corporation at any and all cost.

20

According to the WTS, who are fulfilling Jesus' prediction that there will be many false prophets in the last days?

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

the bible predicts that there will be many false prophets in the last days.

here are some examples:.

matthew 24:11: "many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Yep, it all boils down to a desire to avoid accountability. But, as it often does, the WTS has weaved quite a "tangled web" with this one.